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RECONSTRUCTION. 

, 

SPEECH 

OF 

I)N. A. J. KUYKENDALL, OF ILLINOIS, 

* 

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, MARCH 3, 1866. 



he House, as in Committee of the Whole on the 
te of the Union, having under consideration the 
: ssident's annual message — 

Mr. KUYKENDALL said: 
Mr. Speaker: I need not assure you that I 
roach the investigation of the many grave 
important. subjects treated in the message 
of the President of the United States, at the 
convening of the present Congress, with con- 
raint and embarrassment. No deliberative 
has ever had presented for their consid- 
ration subjects of more grave importance or 
•'-quiring more cool or calm deliberation. 
And in the discussion of these various sub- 
cts submitted, I feel a want of confidence in 
yself and fear my inability to rise to the height 
' their magnitude or in any way to be equal 
q the emergency. Yet I flatter myself that I 
eel and fully appreciate their dignity and im- 
irtance, and that I shall be enabled on this 
occasion to merge the partisan in the patriot. 
The great questions to which our attention is 
illed in the message demand our most care- 
d and earnest consideration, and my most earn- 
est desire is that I shall say nothing in this dis- 
ussion which shall be unbecoming a member 
F this honorable body in speaking to his fellow- 
epresentatives or the people of the United 
States. 

What are the grave questions to which our 
i tention is invited? First, I invite your at- 
ntion to that part of the message pertaining 
ti the relations existing between the United 
S ates Government and the State governments 
actively, and of their mutual connection, in 
which he says:- 

' The best security for the perpetual existence of 
States is the supreme authority of the Constitu- 
tion of the United States; the perpetuity of the Con- 
ation brings with it the perpetuity of the States ; 
ir mutual relations make us what we are, and in 
political system their connection is indissoluble. 
A whole cannot exist without the parts, nor the 
ts without the whole. So long as the Constitution 
le United States endures the States will endure. 
destruction of the one is the destruction of the 
r. The preservation of the one is the preserva- 
tion of the other." 

rom this plain and lucid statement it is evi- 



dent that he holds that the States lately in rebel- 
lion are still in the Union, and have not been 
by the act of treason of a part of their citizens 
taken out of the Union, and thereby become 
"dead or defunct" States. 

Now, sir, let me examine and see if this po- 
sition taken by the President is correct. I hold 
that it is. And in order to arrive at a proper 
solution of this question we must examine it 
and test it by the touch-stone of the Constitu- 
tion, and having in it no model, the simili- 
tudes and analogies applicable to other systems 
of government, it must more than any other 
be its own interpreter according to its text and 
the facts in the case. We will hunt for prece- 
dents in vain, remembering that there never 
was a Government either in ancient or modern 
times that our republican form of government 
can be likened unto. Hence all precedents laid 
down as to what constitutes a State in other Gov- 
ernments is no evidence either for or against the 
position taken as to what constitutes a State 
under our form of Government. 

Are the rebel States still States in the Union? 
In order to come to a correct conclusion on 
this point we must test it by the compact that 
brought into existence the Union of the States, 
and ascertain if possible the intentions of the 
framers of the Constitution, and in that way 
we will be enabled to come to a correct con- 
clusion. 

In the year 1778 a formal compact of Union 
was entered into ; that compact was styled "Ar- 
ticles of Confederation and perpetual Union" 
between the States, naming them. A part of 
the fourteenth article of the Articles of Confed- 
eration is as follows : 

"And the articles of this Confederation shall be in- 
violably observed by every State, and the Union shall 
be perpetual." 

Under these Articles of Confederation the 
States composing the Federal Union solemnly 
plighted their faith to each other that the Union 
should be perpetual, and so existed and kept 
their faith, bound together by indissoluble ties, 
from the year 1778 to the year 1789, when our 
present Constitution was adopted. 



.Ki1 



Sir, I will not take up the valuable time of 
this House, as I might do, by citing authorities 
or introducing arguments to prove that the 
object of the change from the Articles of Con- 
federal inn to the present Constitution was not 
to relieve the States from their perpetual obli- 
gations or in any way weaken the Federal Union, 
but to give it greater strength. 

For I take it, and it is admitted by all, that 
the leading object of Congress in recommend- 
ing, the Convention in framing, and the peo- 
ple in adopting the present Constitution, was 
to strengthen the Union. And, sir, I am sus- 
tained in this view by the Congress of L787 
which recommended the Convention of 1789. 
The State Legislatures which appointed the 
delegates to the Convention, and the people of 
the States who ratified it. declared their Lead- 
ing ol <■!> and perpetuate the 
[ 'iii.ui in existence. 

Now, sir, I hold, as it has been held often be- 
fore by eminent statesmen, that since the organi- 
zation of the Dew Government in L789the peo- 
ple of the United States have been living tinder 
two Governments deriving their power from the 
same source — that source being the sovereign 

Eeople of the several Stales. Each Government, 
owever, has a distinct class of powers. The 
United States possessing power over all matters 
relating to the public, in the due exercise of 
which all the States have a common interest, 
while the States retain all powers relating to their 
domestic institutions, and each Government 
acting within its own sphere is as independent 
of the other as if they were wholly foreign, and 
in exercising those sovereign rights given them 
by the people. If one should infringe on the 
incontestable rights of the other, the remedy is 
found in the United States courts that the sov- 
ereign people established for thai purpose. And 
again, the Constitution of the United States is a 
compact between the sovereign people of each 
State with the sovereign people of every ■ 
State, acting through conventions, which cannot 
be abolished or changed in any manner without 

the consent of all parties to it. sxcepl in the 
manner prescribed in its own provisions. And 
further, sir. the laws of the United ! 
the laws of the Stales reach and bind citizens 
high and low, and the United States cannot 
live any one from their obligations to obey 
the State laws passed within their respective 
spheres. So neither can the States absolve any 
one from their obligations to abide by and obey 
the laws passed by the United States within 
their sphere. Such, at Least I think, i 
true theory of our institutions. 

Now. sir, what is a State? The people com- 
posing it. What is the United States? The 
people composing them, in the sense of the 
Constitution, where it says, "We, the people 
of the United States;" and in that people is 
vested and merged the sovereignty of the peo- 
ple of the States, so far as it covers the powers 
granted in the Constitution. In reference to 
all the reserved powers in the Constitution, the 
people of the States remain sovereign, subject, 
however, to all the restrictions placed upon 



themselves by the grant of sovereign powers to 
the General Government. 

In the view 1 have taken of this question 

Cting the relations of the Stales to the 

General Government, I am fully sustained by 

the following letter from that erudite statesman, 

Mr. James Madison: 

"In order to understand the true character of the. 
Constitution of the United States, the error, not un- 
common, must be avoided of viewing it through the 
medium either of a consolidated Government or of'a 
Legated Government, while it is neither the one 
north a mixture of both. And, having 

in no model the similitudes and analogies applit 
to i her systems of government, it must, more I 
any other, be its own interpreter accordim 
facts of the case. 
"From these it will lie seen that the characteristic 
irities of the Constitution are : l. Ihe mode of 
its forma i ion. 2. The division of the supreme powers 
of governm o the States in their united 

Capacity and the States in their individual capaci- 
ties.'' , 
"1. It was formed, not by the governments of the 
. as the Federal Government for 
■ it was substituted was formed. Nor v;;n it 
1 bj a majority of the people of the United 
States, as a single community in the manner of a con- 
solidated Government. It was formed by the St 
that is, by the people in each of the States acting jp 
their highest sovereign capacity, and formed conse- 
quently by tli" same authority which formed the 
institutions. 
"Being thus derived from the same source as the 
constitutions of the States, it has, within each E 

the same authority as the constitution of the State; 
bsmuohaconstitution.in the strict sense of the 
term, within its prescribed sphere, as the constitutions 
of the States are. within their respective Bpheres; hut 
with this oh\ ioui and essential difference, that being 
a compact among the States in their highest sovi 
capacity, andconstituting the people thereof one peo- 
ple for certain purposes, it cannot be altered or an- 
nulled at the will of the States individually,:! 
constitution of a State may he at its individual will. 
"2. And thai Ltd upreme pbw ers ot 

I lllllellt of the I Illicit 

State, and the government of the individual Si 

i the instrument: the powers 
of war and of taxation, of commerce and of treaties, 
and other enumerated powers vested in the <h.v i rn- 

nient i hi- Of as high and SOV- 

, ed tO 

the State :.'.i\ eminent-. 

\ ■■: j ■ in ( i\ rnoeie f ta. I nited §fc»6: r ■ 

ated by the Constitution, less a Government, in tho 
strict Bense of the term, within the sphere of its pow- 
ers, than the governments created by the constitutions 

Of the States are within their several spheres, it is, 

like them, organized into legislative, executivi 
judiciary d< It operates, like them, di- 

rectly on persons and thirigs. And, like them, it has 
at oommand a physical force for executing the powers 

committed to it." 

Again Mr. Madison said, in his correspond- 
ence iu reference to the ratification of the Con- 
stitution by the different States, "it was uncon- 
ditional and hound them forever." 

Now. sir, I propose to eiamine the records 
of the Legislative department of this Govern- 
ment and see if they have not sustained by their 
action the idea that the existence of the Union 
of these States is perpetual, at the same time 
repudiating the idea that States could cease to 
have existence or, by the act of the war, could 
become -dead or defunct." I will first call the 
attention of this Eouse to a resolution pai < <l 
the 24th day of .July. 1861, by an almost unani- 
mous vote, which is as follows : 

"That this war is not prosecuted upon our part in 
any spirit of oppression, nor for any purposo of con- 
quest or subjugation, nor purpose of overthrowing or 



interfering with the rights or established institutions 
of those States, but to defend and maintain the su- 
tts " premacy of the Constitution and all laws made in pur- 
suance thereof, and to preserve the Union with all 
the dignity, equality, and rights of the several States 
unimpaired; that as soon as these objects are accom- 
plished the war ought to cease." 

It may be said, however, that this resolution 
was passed soon after the commencement of 
the war, and at a time when the relations of the 
States to the General Government had not been 
so thoroughly discussed and were not so well 
understood as at present. But, sir, this is not 
true ; it was passed at a time when men were 
cool and inclined to take statesmanlike views 
of great and important questions, while reason 
held its sway and madness did not rule the 
hour. Would to God we could say as much in 
reference to the manner in which we now exam- 
ine questions in this House. 

The Constitution of the United States pro- 
vides that — 

"Representatives and direct taxes shall be appor- 
tioned among the several States which maybe in- 
cluded within thisllnion according to their respective 
numbers." 

And under this provision of the Constitution, 
in August, 1861, Congress passed an act ap- 
portioning the direct taxes among the several 
States, including the States in rebellion, thereby 
recognizing the same by name as States still 
of the Union, which said act is in the follow- 
ing words and figures: 

"And be it further enacted. That a direct tax of 
$20,000,000 be, and is hereby, annually laid upon the 
United States, and the same shall be, and is hereby, 
apportioned to the States respectively and in manner 
following. To the State of— 

Maine §428,826 00 

New Hampshire 218,402 66! 

Vermont 211,068 00 

Massachusetts 824,581 33! 

Rhode Island 116,963 66| 

Connecticut 308,214 00 

New York 2.603,918 66! 

New Jersey 450,134 00 

Pennsylvania 1,946,719 33i 

Delaware 74,683 33! 

Maryland 436,823 33! 

Virginia 937,550 66! 

North Carolina &i6,194 661 

South Carolina 363,5 

Georgia 584,367 

Alabama 529,313 33! 

Mississippi 413,1 

Louisiana 385,886 66! 

Ohio 1,567,089 33! 

Kentucky 713,695 33! 

Tennessee 669,498 00 

Indiana 904,875 33! 

Illinois 1,146,551 33! 

Missouri 761.127 33! 

Kansas 71,743 33! 

Arkansas 261,886 00 

Michigan 501,763 33! 

Florida 77,522 66! 

Texas » 355,106 66! 

Iowa 452,088 00 

Wisconsin 519,688 66! 

California 2-54.538 66! 

Minnesota 108,524 00 

Oregon 35,140 66! 

Congress also, as late as 1862, again recog- 
nized these States as States of this Union and 
entitled to representation, by passing an act 
on the 4th of March of that year, which by its 
terms was not to take effect until the 4th of 
March, 1863 ; which act apportioned the rep- 
resentation of the eleven rebellious States on 
the same basis as the loyal States of the Union. 



Thus, by the action of Congress in appor- 
tioning direct taxes and representation, the 
status of the eleven seceded States was fixed, 
and the States included within this Union. 
After the action of Congress in so many in- 
stances declaring these States to be in the 
Union, it seems to me a declaration now by 
the same Congress that these States are out of 
the Union, having no political existence, not 
entitled to representation, is a proposition so 
monstrous that it will fall upon the ears of the 
country, and especially those of the soldiers 
who fought to maintain the proposition that 
those States could not go out of the Union, 
with astounding effect. 

Now, sir, I desire to present, some of the 
views entertained by our lamented late Chief 
Magistrate, Abraham Lincoln, on the same 
point, showing that he was desirous of carry- 
ing out the same plan of reconstruction and 
entertained the same views that are found in 
the message of President Johnson, to wit: 

That the eleven seceded States whose citizens 
have been engaged in a rebellion for the pur- 
pose of dividing this Union and setting up a 
separate government for themselves have sig- 
nally failed, and the legitimate and logical re- 
sult of that failure is, that the Union is not 
divided ; a separate Government is not in ex- 
istence ; the States are not out but in the Union. 
Instead of two Governments we have but one 
— one Constitution and one flag ; and in the 
name of the Constitution of this proud Repub- 
lic, the flag of this glorious Union, the thou- 
sands of bones of Union soldiers bleaching on 
southern soil, I do here protest against this 
House, by its legislation, blotting out eleven 
stars from that glorious emblem of our unity 
and strength ; a thing that was tried for over 
four years by hundreds of thousands of armed 
men in rebellion and which they most signally 
failed to accomplish. 

I will now call the attention of this House to 
the proclamation of President Lincoln, issued 
December 8, 1863, in which he fully sustains 
the position I have taken : 

" I do further proclaim, declare, and make known, 
that whenever, in any of the States of Arkansas, 
Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee. Alabama, 
Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, and North Caro- 
lina, a number of persons, not less than one tenth in 
number of the votes cast in such State at the presi- 
dential election of the year of our Lord 1860, each 
having taken the oath aforesaid and nothavingsince 
violated it, and being a qualified voter by the election 
law of the State existing immediately before the so- 
called act of secession, and excluding all others, shall 
reestablish a State government which shall be repub- 
lican, and in nowise contravening said oath, such shall 
be recognized as the true government of the State, 
and the State shall receive thereunder the benefitsof 
the constitutional provision which declares that 'the 
United States shall guaranty to every State in this 
Union a republican form of government, and shall 
protect each of them against invasion.' " 

You see from the reading of this proclama- 
tion that President Lincoln's idea was to main- 
tain these States in the Union, and to give to 
the loyal portion the right to control the State 
governments, thereby forming a nucleus around 
which the loyal and true might rally in oppo- 
sition to the disloyal and untrue. A very dif- 
ferent position from that taken by some mem- 



bers of this House, who, by refusing to recog- 
nize loyal members elected by the loyal people 
of one of those States, place them on a par 
with rebels, giving no encouragement what- 
ever to the men who have been loyal and true 
during the whole rebellion in the southern 
States, whereby they might organize such a 
strong and powerful party as would give full 
and complete protection to the rights of all, 
both black and white. 

And again, sir, on the ] 1th day of April last 
President Lincoln spoke to the people of Wash- 
ington, just three days before his assassination, 
from which 1 quote the following: 

"In the annual message of December, 1863, and 
accompanying proclamation, I presented a plan of 
reconstruction, (asthephrase goes,) which 1 promised, 

adopted by any State, should be acceptable to and 
lined by the executive Government of the na- 
tion." * * * * * * * * * 

" This plan was, in advance, submitted to the then 
Cabinet, and distinctly approved by every member 
ui it." * * " Every part and parcel 

Hi i he plan which has since been employed or touched 
by the action of Louisiana." 

"Some twelve thousand voters in the heretofore 
slave State of Doui iana have sworn allegiance to tho 
Union ; assumed to be the rightful political power of 
the State; held elections; organized a free pn 
nient; adopted a free State constitution, giving the 
benefit of public Schools equally to black and u bite, 
and empowering the Legislature to confer the elective 
franchise upon the colored man. Their Legislature 
has already voted to ratify the constitutional amend- 
ment recently passed by Congress abolishing slavery 
throughout the nation. li e thousand per- 

are thus fully committed to the Union, and to 
perpetual freedom in the Slate-, committed to the 
very things, and nearly all the things, the nation 
wants, and they ask the nation's recognition and its 
assistance to make good that committal, 

"Now, if we reject and spurn them, we do our ut- 
most to disorganize and disperse them. We, in< 

say to the white man. ' Y"U arc worthless, or worse; 
We will neither help you nor be helped by you.' To 
the blacks we say, 'This cup of liberty which I 
your old masters, hold to your lips, we will dash from 
you, and leave you to the el theringthe 

spilled and scattered content-, in some vague and un- 
defined when, where, and how.' It this course, dis- 
couraging and paralyzing both to white and Mack, 
has any tendency to bring Louisianain to proper prac- 
tical relations with the Dnion, 1 have, bo tar, been 
unable to perceive it. 

"If, on thecontrary, we recognize and sustain tho 
new government of Louisiana, the converge ot all this 
is made true. We eneouragc the hearts and i 
the arms of the twelve thousand to adhere to their 
work, and argue for it, and proselyte for it. and fight 
for it, and feed it, and grow it. and ripen it to a com- 
plete BUCCess. The colored man, too, seeing all united 
for him, is inspired with vigilance and energy and 
daring to the same end. Grant that he desires the 
elective franchise. Will he not attain it sooner by 
saving the already advanced steps toward it than by 
running backward over them? Concede that the 
new government of Louisiana is only to what it 
should be as the egg is to the fowl, we shall sooner 
have the fowl by hatching the egg than by smashing 

J* f» # 41 £ * ■ '4 * # * * 

" I repeat the question, 'Can Louisiana be brought 
into proper practical relation with the Union sooner 
by sustaining or by discarding her new State govern- 
ment?' What has been said of Louisiana will apply 
generally to other States." 

From the foregoing remarks of Mr. Lincoln, 
it is evident that the executive branch of the 
Government was and is committed to the policy 
that these States are in the Union as States. 
The evidence is abundanl that Congress by its 
legislation; the President by his proclamation, 
had no other purpose than to perpetuate the 
Union with all the dignity, equality, and rights 
of the several States unimpaired. This same 



policy and principle was indorsed by the r 
vention at Baltimore that nominated Mr. L 
coin and Mr. Johnson; and was i 
antly confirmed at the polls by tie 
who elected them President and V ' 
of the United States. 

It will be remembered that the policy 
gurated by Mr. Lincoln, known as hi- r 
struction policy, and attempted to b 
out by Mr. Johnson, was as much ratifiec 
the people as any other part of Mr. Linco 
administration. 

1 may. however, be asked by what right 
the President appointed provisional govei 
for the rebellious or seceded States? i t 
the Presidenl was justified in doing so, and 
it was his imperative duty so to do. The Si 
had been in rebellion. The rebellion had 1 
conquered: they were left without any S 
. nments, and the duty devolving upon 
Executive in the execution of the laws and 
Constitution, and in guarantying to each S 
a republican form of government. It bee; 
a necessity in order to put the machiner 
the State governmenl in proper shape and 'i 
tion. The same as out of necessity grew 
authority lor the issuing of the emancipat 
proclamation, an inherent power, residing 
governmenl higher and above the Constitnl 
— the right of self-pres,ervation. 

A.8 Chi< f Executive of the nation it was 
sworn duty to enforce the execution of theCi 
stitution and the laws passed in pUrsuai 
thereof, and to prepare the way for the I" 
people of those States to have thai proteel 

which our ( Mivernment should afford them 

■ bem protection in thi of an 

herein right thai is older than the Governm 

: the righl to regulate their domestic 
in their own way. subject alone to 
Constitution i f the United States j and 
they : tore their constitutional relati 

with the Government of the United State 
adopting for themselves a constitution and S 
government that would be republican in !'• 

Now. Mr. Speaker, those who have folio 
the thread of my remarks will see that I c 
our forefathers to have intended to make 
Union perpetual, and that the late war was] 
ecutedf'or the purpose of perpetuating thai 
principle. The blood of our brothersand 
was shed upon many a battle-field for tin 
pose of preserving and saving those Stat 
a part of the great whole, and not for the pur- 
pose of destroying or wiping them out of 
ence. Every act of the Governni:. durin 
bloody conflict has recognized them as insu 
States, with a view to their restoration to 
former relations to the General Govern 
and not with a view to their destruction as S 
Hence it will be seen that I do nol subsc 
the theory of "dead or defunct" Stat* 
insist, in the language of President Jo 
that the whole cannot exist without th< 
nor the parts without the whole. 

I believe ii is admittedly all that tin 

was designed to be perpetual. If thai b( 
must from necessity follow as equally 
the States are perpetual. 1 contend I 



rivernment was administered during the four 
■ars of rebellion by Mr. Lincoln upon the idea 
' the perpetuity of the Union and the States, 
id thai Mr. Johnson shows clearly in his mes- 
ge that his intentions are to administer it upon 
e same loyal, legal, and proper principle. 
This great principle has been canonized in 
e hearts and minds of the loyal people of the 
nited States, and I am curious to know why 
is the honorable gentleman from Pennsyl- 
nia, [Mr. Stevens,] and those who hold to 
8atae new-fangled ideas, are so extremely 
xious to abandon the safe line that has car- 
■d us so successfully through so many storms 
d over the boisterous billows of the lied sea 
il the rebellion and landed us safely upon the 
road platform of the Constitution. 
There must be some reason for it that I can- 
see or understand that lies deep beneath 
surface that will only show itself when their 
cts are accomplished. I wish I could be- 
e that this new and startling doctrine of 
' <;ead or defunct" States were the result of an 
est conviction of the better judgment of 
e gentlemen. I could then have more 
i pity for their views. 
ut I believe their object to be, first, to reduce 
e States to a territorial condition, and then 
'gislate for them by Congress, and in that 
, by act of Congress, declare universal suf- 
e, or in other words, give the negroes the 
t to vote in those eleven seceded States. 
I o this I am opposed. First, because Con- 
s has no right to destroy the States. Sec- 
, Congress has no right to regulate the suf- 
e question in any State, that being a right 
rantied to the people of the different States 
be Constitution of the United States. Third, 
ink it would be proper in us of the northern 
es to change our own State constitutions so 
o enfranchise the black man at home before 
undertake to force this doctrine upon States 
i!i whose domestic affairs we have nothing to 
, and who are not here represented and can 
ve no voice in the affair. 
I may be asked, however, what action I would 
take in reference to these southern States? In 
iswer I would say that I would treat them 
ith as much kindness as their conduct from 
in' to time showed them entitled to receive, 
i would keep a sufficient military force in each 
one of those States to insure a prompt and faith- 
ful execution of the Constitution and laws. I 
ould guaranty such protection to the freedmen 
■ s would insure them against harm or violence, 
and give them full and complete protection in 
all their rights. I would admit the loyal dele- 
gates sent here from Tennessee, that State hav- 
ing been exempted from the emancipation proc- 
lamation of Mr. Lincoln as a loyal State, the 
nembers-elect from that State being loyal and 
true men, one or more of them scar-worn vet- 
erans, who have served during the whole war 
in the Union Army, and being in favor of thus 
admitting those loyal men, I suppose I differ 
with the great leader of the Radicals in this 
House, [Mr. Stevens,] and his followers. I 
also differ with the copperhead persuasion of 
this House : they would repeal the test oath 



and admit any Representatives that might be 
elected from the southern States, be they loyal 
men or rebels. 

I am not in favor of repealing the test oath, 
but am in favor of its remaining there as a mon- 
ument of loyalty, to be subscribed to and taken 
by every member who shall hereafter enter the 
councils of the nation, be he from what State he 
may, and whenever men are sent here from the 
rebellious States or from any other of the States 
who cannot subscribe to that oath, I would say 
to him, "Go back to your constituents and say 
to them that the Congress of the United States, 
being the judges of the qualifications of its own 
members, will not allow a rebel to enter their 
Halls as a member, any more than they would 
a convict from one of the State penitentiaries." 
But if you will send us a loyal man who has 
stood the test of the fires of this rebellion, he 
should be admitted and act as your mouth-piece 
in the councils of the nation. 

Mr. MARSHALL. If my colleague will 
allow me, before he passes from that point, I 
would like to make a remark. I have nothing 
to say about the good taste of using the epi- 
thet ''copperhead" if my colleague thinks it 
comports with his own sense of propriety to 
use such stale and worn-out epithets upon this 
floor. But in his statement in regard to my 
position here, he is entirely mistaken if he in- 
tends to apply the term " copperhead" to me 
and those who act with me, or to intimate that 
I am willing to admit any man from the South, 
whether he be a traitor or not, to a seat upon 
this floor. 

He is entirely mistaken in regard to my po- 
sition. I say that the southern States are in 
the Union, and ought to be recognized as much 
as any other States in the Union, and that 
when they send loyal men here who are will- 
ing to stand by the Constitution and the Union 
it is an outrage to reject them. 

Sir, if such men as Jeff. Davis, John Slidell, 
John C. Breckinridge, and a host of others 
whom I mightname, were to present themselves 
here, I should myself, so far as I am individ- 
ually concerned, remain here until Gabriel blew 
his trumpet before I would consent to admit 
them to seats as Representatives here. I would 
consider the claims of each man personally, but 
I hold that the States are in the Union and are 
entitled to representation here. That is my 
position in regard to this question. And the 
gentleman is entirely mistaken in assigning me 
the position which he has done. 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I do not wish my 
colleague to interpolate his remarks into my 
speech. I spoke of the "copperhead persua- 
sion." I did not know that that struck any 
member from mv State. 

Mr. MARSHALL. It is well known that 
the disunionists upon the other side of the 
House — I do not class my colleague in that 
number — apply the term "copperhead" to the 
members on this side of the House, around 
whom are clustering all the hopes of the people 
of this country who desire an immediate res- 
toration of the Union. 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Let me say that of 



6 



the Democrats in my district three fourths are 
not considered copperheads ; they are war 
Democrats although they voted the Democratic 
ticket. We call one party there the Demo- 
cratic party, and we have another party there 
which we call the Copperhead party. I do not 
know whether they have any Representatives 
here or not, hut I want to ask my colleague 
whether he is in favor of maintaining or of 
repealing the test oath. 

Mr. MARSHALL. If my colleague desires 
my opinion about that I will give it to him. 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I want a categorical 
answer. 

Mr. MARSHALL. I will state simply this: 
that I am inclined to believe that it is uncon- 
ttional. That question, however, is before 
the Supreme Court for decisi6n. I think, how- 
ever, that the better mode is to repeal the oath 
and determine the question as to each member 
wlnn he presents himself here, whether he is 
now a loyal man. and as such entitled to be 
admitted to membership on this floor. 

I cannot say thai I would at this time be in 
favor of removing all tests of every character, 
but I think at all events that (he time will very 
soon come when that te mghl to be 

stricken from the statute-book, and wlnn such 
men as Alexander II. Stephens, who have been 
complicated with the rebellion, ought to be ad- 
mitted, if we are sat i- lied that they are now true 
to the Union and the Constitution. 1 would 
■ li/.e the States as in the Union and en- 
titled to representation, and consider the 
of each individual member as he presented his 
to a seat here. 

Mr. ROGERS. Will the gentleman from 
Illinois | Mr. Ktykendall] allow me to ask his 
question? 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Oh, of course. I will 
yield to that gentleman. 

Mr. ROGERS. I ask the gentleman from 
Illinois [Mr. Marshall] this question. Sup- 
pose Alexander 11.' 

Representative in Congress from tin 1 State of 
: :ia. and should come here : would you or 
would you not vote tor his admission if he was 
regularlj i 

Mr. MARSHALL. If I was 
he was true to the Constitution and the Union, 
and intended to Btand by the Government and 
insist on its perpetuation under tin- Constitu- 
tion, actil i faith, 1 would vote for his 
admission. But I should not consider that in 
so doing I was adopting a principle that would 
require me to admit men whom I believe still 
t,o dp truitors 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I must insist that 
these gentlemen do not occupy all my time. 

Mr. ROGERS. My only object was to get 
the views of the gentleman about the test oath. 

Mr. MA RSHALL. While I am up will my 
colleague let me say a word in reference to the 
gentleman from New Jersey, [Mr. Rogi 

Mr. KUYKENDALL Yes, if it is no1 too 
long. 

MARSHALL. It will be very brief in- 
deed. A number of gentl mion 
side of the Hoi as, have been very 



anxious, I know not for what purpose, to de- 
nominate the gentleman from New Jersey the 
leader of this side of the House. 

Now, if it is meant that he has made more 
speeches and longer speeches, and, if you 
please abler ones, than any other member on 
this side of the House, I have certainly no ob- 
jection to the gentleman being considered the 
leader in that sense. I am willing to accord to 
him the great ability and eloquence which I 
recognize him to possess. But I must say for 
myself, that in many of the extreme views ex- 
pressed by that gentleman since this Congress 
commenced its session, he does not, in myjudg- 
ment, represent the Democratic portion of this 
House. In many of his views he does, and in 
others he does not. and I am not willing to have 
it insisted upon here or understood by the coun- 
try that the gentleman from New Jersey [Mr. 
Rogers] is in bis discussions on fchia floor the 
representative of this side of the House ; nor 
am I willing to be bound by everything that he 
or any other member may choose to say. 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. The gentleman has 

not yet answered my question. I want a direct 
answer from him. I want him to say whether 
or not he would rote to repeal the test oath at 
this time. That is a question easily answered] 
yes or no. He says he would repeal it in re- 
gard to Alexander H. Stephens; why not also 
in p gard to Jeff. I >ai U '.' 

Mr. MARSHALL, I have already said that 
very soon, if not now, I think this test oath 
should be repealed; and that men. although 
they may have been drawn into the rebellion, 
who are now true to the Union, and are well 
known and recognized to lie such, should, if 

they are elected, be > seats in this 

House. 

r. ROGERS. Will the gentleman from 
Illinois [Mr. Ki 5TXENDALL] yield to me for a 
moment 7 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Not now. 

Mr. ROGERS. 1 have been very liberal to 
Others. 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I know that: but 
the gentleman is not answering any question I 

>:it. 
.Mr. ROGERS, .lust a moment. 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Very well 

Mr. ROGERS. 1 know thai u\\ views are 
somewhat in advance of those of some mem- 
bers on this side of this Souse, lhtt I suppose 
the Speaker of this House has noticed that dur- 
ing my career in Congress I have always acted 
and spoken upon principle, regardless of any 
political consequences to me. I have always 
expressed my views openly and fairly to the 
best of my ability; and I am here to-day to say 
that I would vote now, and it would give me 
as much pleasure as any vote that I have ever 
given or ever could give, to repeal the present 
test oath. 1 believe that oath is unconstitu- 
tional, and that no Congress under the au- 
thority of the Constitution has the right to 
.i requirement upon tic con- 
i . ,. A.ndtl I mt ( f the 

Uniti 
colloquy he had with gentlemen from New 



York, expressly stated that he believed that 
oath ought to be repealed, and that no other 
obligation ought to be imposed upon any man 
than an oath to support the Constitution of the 
Uniled States. 

Mr. KUYKBNDALL. I object to the gen- 
tleman from New Jersey [Mr. Rogers] as au- 
thority for what President Johnson says. What 
I want to know is, whether he speaks for his 
entire party. 

Mr. KOGERS. No, sir; I speak for myself ; 
I do not speak for the Democratic party at all. 
I do not profess or claim to be any leader of 
that party. I advocate what I believe to be 
Democratic principles. I do not pretend to 
control anybody ; and I know no one on this 
side of the House is so foolish as to be con- 
trolled by anything but his own ideas of right 
and justice. It is a serious, a great insult to 
undertake to charge upon this side of the 
House that they are to be led by any man. 
They are men of sense and judgment and dis- 
cretion, and are able to pursue their own course 
according to their own judgment, with the same 
right and the same sense of obligation and duty 
that I can exercise ; and with equally as much 
if not more sense. 

Mr. KUYKENDALL. We all believe that. 
[Laughter.] But I would like my friend from 
Illinois [Mr. Marshall] to answer this ques- 
tion. He says that he thinks the time will come 
very soon .when this test oath should be repealed. 
Now, if Mr. Breckinridge should be elected a 
member of this House from the State of Ken- 
tucky by a majority of the qualified voters of 
the district, and was willing to take the oath to 
support the Constitution of the United States, 
would the gentleman vote to give him a seat 
upon this floor? 

Mr. MARSHALL. I would not. I would 
have these questions properly referred, so that 
the merits of each individual presenting him- 
self might be thoroughly and properly con- 
sidered. I believe that those States are enti- 
tled to representation. I have already said that 
I would not vote for the admission of those 
men whom I believe to be guilty of having 
originally concocted treason and deliberately 
plotted the destruction of this Government. 
But among those in the South who were drawn 
into the rebellion after it commenced there are 
many good men who, in my opinion, are to-day 
as loyal to the Union and the Government as 
is my colleague; and when a man of this class 
presents himself here as the Representative of 
a StaMt am ready to vote for bis admission. 
Mr. WYKENDALL. Mr. Speaker, I have 
now attained the object of my inquiry. My 
colleague said that he was perfectly willing to 
vote for the admission of the ex- vice president 
of the confederate government ; but that if the 
former Vice President of 'the United States 
should present himself here, he would be in 
favor of excluding him. I simply desired to 
understand the ground of the distinction which 
my colleague makes between the cases of these 
two individuals, both of whom have been prom- 
inently engaged in the rebellion. I am glad 
that he has defined his position. I will leave 



him to explain to his constituents why he pre- 
fers the vice president of the confederacy to 
the ex- Vice President of the United States. 

But, Mr. Speaker, there is another grave 
question to which I want to call the attention 
of this House ; that is, the settlement forever 
of this question that has so long taken up the 
entire time of Congress, the question of the 
African race. It appears to be impossible to 
have legislation on any other subject until this 
question is finally settled. 

I come, sir, from the great Northwest, where 
the people are a producing people, and more 
interestedin the price of beef, pork, corn, wheat, 
oats, &c, than they are in the negroes being 
made their equals at the ballot-box. Let us, 
then, take such steps as will forever drive this 
question from the Halls of Congress and give 
us peace and quiet the balance of our days. 

1 may be asked how this is to be done. In 
answer I would say, I would make a treaty with 
the republic of Mexico, and arrange with them 
to colonize the American citizens of African 
descent in the warm climate and rich valleys 
of Mexico, with all the rights pertaining to them 
of Mexican citizens. I would enforce the Mon- ' 
roe doctrine, drive Maximilian out of the coun- 
try, assist in reestablishing a republican form 
of government, secure to the negroes lands, 
give them a fair start in the world, give them 
all the assistance incumbent on a Christian 
people to do, and there let them under the 
guidance of Providence and protection of the 
United States mark out their own destiny. 

The Monroe doctrine has been indorsed by 
all the political parties of this country for the 
last forty years, and never would have been 
infringed upon by any foreign Power had it not 
been that we were engaged in the suppression 
of a great and gigantic rebellion. 

Taking advantage of this, the 'Emperor of 
France caused to be established in Mexico, an 
empire, and placed on the throne Maximilian, 
and we sit quietly by to allow a sister republic 
to be crushed and ground to dust, in violation 
of the doctrines that we have always espoused 
and advocated, and in violation of one of the 
resolutions of the platform upon which Lincoln 
and Johnson were elected. 

I here read the resolution which was last 
adopted by the Baltimore convention : 

"Resolved, That we approve the position taken by 
'the Government that the peopleof the United States 
can never regard wit h indifference theattenipt of any 
iuiropean Power to overthrow by force or to supplant 
by fraud the institutions of any republican govern- 
ment on the western continent, (.prolonged apolause 1 
and that they will view with extreme jealo'usy as 
menacing to the peace and independence'of their own 
country, the efforts of any such Power to obtain new 
iootholdsior monarchical governments, sustained by 
foreign military force, in near proximity to the Uni- 
ted States. 

The indorsing of this resolution by the Amer- 
ican people showed that they were in earnest 
on this question, and Maximilian's. remaining 
in Mexico is a part and parcel of the late re- 
bellion, and it will never be finally crushed out 
until he is driven to an abandonment of his 
throne and across the broad waters of the 
ocean. 



8 



I propose here, sir, to read a letter written 
by Thomas Jefferson on the 14th October, 1828, 
to Mr. Monroe, then President of the United 

States: 

"The question presented by the letters you have 
sent me is the most momentous ever offered to my 
contemplation feince that of independence. That 
made ns a nation; this sets our COmpaSS and points 
our course which we are to steer through the ocean of 
time opening on us; and never could we embark on 
it under circumstances more auspicious. Ourfir.-t and 
fundamental maxim should be, never to entangle our- 
selves in the broils of Europe. Our second, never to 
sutler Europe to intermeddle with cisatlantic affairs. 
America, North and South, lias a set of interests dis- 
tincl from those of Europe, and peculiarly her own. 
She mould, the re tore, have a system of her own, sepa- 
rate and apart from that of Europe. Whilethe East 
is laboring to become the domicile of despotism, our 
endeavor should surely be to make our hemisphere 
that of freedom. One nation, most df all. could dis- 
turb us in this pursuit; she now offers to bad. aid, 
and accompany us in it. By acceding to her pi 
tion we detach her from ill ion,, 

her mighty weight into the scale of free government, 
and emancipate a continent at one stroke, which 
might otherwise linger long in doubt and difficulty. 
Great Britain is the nation which can do us the most 

harm of any One, or all on earth; and with lor on 

our side we need not fear the whole world. With hex. 
then, we should most sedul b a cordial 

hip: and nothing I more lo knit our 

affections than to be fighting once more. Bide i 
in lie— une cause. Not that 1 would purcha e even 
heramityat the price of taking part innerwars. Bui 
the war in which the present proposition mig 

us, should that be it- consequence, i- not her 

war. but ours. 
" [ts object i- to introduce and establi )h the Ann r- 
m of keeping out ofourlandalll ireign 

; never permitting those ol Europe to intermed- 
dle with the affairs of our nation. It is to maintain 
our own principle, not to depart from it: and if,to 
facilitate tkia.we can effect a divisioninthobodyofthe 

Bui an Powers, and draw over to our side its l t 

iiil member, surely we should do it. But 1 am 
clearly ofMr. Canning's opinion, i hat it will prevent 
instead ofprovoke a war. With <ire.it Britain with- 
drawn from their scale and Bhifted into that of our 
two continents, all Europe combined would not un- 
dertake such a war. For bow would they pro] 

i either enemy without superior fleets? Nor is 
the ore,, -in,, to be slighted which this propo 
oilers, of declaring our protests against the atrocious 
violations of the rights of nations, by the interference 
of any one in the international affairs of 

in by Bonaparte, and now continued 
bv the equally lawless alliance calling itselfholy. 

" But we have first to ask ourselves a question: do 
we wish to acquire to our own confederacy any one or 
more of the Spanish provinces? 1 candidly oo 
that l ha\ i themosl m; 

ing addition that could r\ er be made to our system of 
States. The control which, with Florida point, this 
island would give us over the Gulf of Mexico, and the 

Ltries and isthmus bordering on it. as well 
those whose waters flow into it, would hll up the meas- 
ure of our political well-being. > et,as I am sensible 
that this can never be obtained, even with her own 
consent, but by war; and ifits independence, which is 
our second interest, (and especially us independence 
Of England, I can be secured without it. I have no lies- 
it a tion in abandoning my firstwish to future chances, 
and accepting its indi pendenee, w ith peace and the 

friendship of England, rather than its associations at 
the expense of war and her enmity. 
" I could honestly, therefore, join in the declaration 



proposed, that we aim not at the acquisition of a n 
of those possessions, that we will not stand in the 
way of any amicable arrangement between tl. i 
the mother country, but that we will oppose, wit 
our means, the forcible interposition of any oth« 
Power, as auxiliary, stipendiary, or under any other 
form or pretext, and most especially their transfer ti 
any Power by conquest, cession, or acquisition in any 
other way. I should think it, therefore, advisabl 
that the Executive should encourage the British Gov- 
ernment to a continuance in the dispositions expresse ; 
in these letters by an assurance of his concurrent' 
with them as far as his authority goes; and that 

ad to war, the declaration of which requires 
an act of Congress, the case shall be laid before tiiei 
tor consideration at their first meeting, and under th i 
lable aspect in which it is seen by himself. 
" I have been SO long weaned from political sul 
jectS, and have SO long ceased to taki t i 

them, that 1 am sensible I am not qualified to 
opinions on them worthy of any attention. But tl 
question now proposed involves consequence olas 
ing, and effects so decisive of our future destiniei . 
indlo all the interest I have heretofore fell i 
ins, and to the hazard of opinions who 
will prove only my wish to contribute still my 
toward anything which may be useful to our court 
And praying you to accept it at only what it i~ n 
1 add the assurance of my constant and affectiot 
friendship and respect." 

Mr. Monroe, finding thai he had the sup] 
of Mr. Jefferson, on the 2d of December, I 

I his message to Congress, and enun 
ated the doctrine known us the " Monroe ■ 
trine," which., summed up, is as he stated it; 

:i principle inwhich the rightsand inten 
the 1 nited States are involved, that the Amcri 
■ lit, by the free and independent condi 
they have assumed and maintained, are bene, 
not to be considered as subjects for future coloniza- 
tion by an\ European Power." 
In the letter of Mr. Jefferson and the n 
of Mr. Monroe the doctrine is so 
d that I have riven the statements to 
country, and 1 now insist that we hold this doc- 
trine sacredand will maintain it. The pe 
arc for it ; theyare for driving Maximilian out 
of the country, and I am for it. 

Now. sir. havinggiven my views unrestraii 
I will sav they are the doctrines upon whi 
ilected and upon which Mr. Lincoln 
1. and ! am determined to stand by them, 
come weal or come. woe. 

Now, sir. hoping that the legislation ol 
country may bo directed in such a channel 
lint iv shall be calmed and peace and i 
entirely restored, and believing that tin 
state will be guided through the presenl iron 
seas without being stranded upon the rod 
passion and prejudice, and having gi ■ ■• 
in the wisdom of the American people, 1" 
ing all will yH be well, I shall, so fai 
action is concerned, attempt to do that wl 
I believe to be right; and, trust in.j^fci !■■ 
Providence to guide me in the ri'iht^^ction 
1 have faith that I will succeed in doing jus 
to all. 



Printed at the Congressional Globe Office. 



LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 




